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poss says | |||
| I thought these facts were incredibly interesting | ||||
| Total Topic Karma: 6 | - More by this Author | |||
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poss says |
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| sorry, the links seem to have been stripped out during posting, try these facts |
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| - Author's History - 11 June, 2007 | |||||
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QuantumBeep says |
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| Aside question, Poss. Do you think that big business is evil? | |||||
| - Author's History - 11 June, 2007 | |||||
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RedStar says |
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| So much for the "progressive taxation" system the Social Democrats' been working on for 100 years. *Puff* We are right back at where we were with this concentration of capital thing. There was a time when Marx's theory of capitalism looked almost ludicrous...Not so today. Wealth *IS* being concentrated in fewer and fewer hands, dividing the world into groups of "haves" and "have-nots". It's the unavoidable conclusion of capitalism---And its demise too, hopefully. |
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| - Author's History - 11 June, 2007 | |||||
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poss says |
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| QB, no. Just like i dont think the lion about to eat me is evil. It is in it's nature. If you create an entity that values itself over everything else, and is capable of "infinite growth" and then let it loose, it will end up devouring everything it can. only things bigger than itself will remain unconsumed, but eventually it will have consumed so much that it becomes so big as to be unstoppable. that is of course until it runs out of things to consume. | |||||
| - Author's History - 11 June, 2007 | |||||
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ATB says |
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| Redstar, even if we abolish the capitalistic reign of terror, human greed will continue concentrate wealth. doesnt matter what social, economical, or political system we use. | |||||
| - Author's History - 11 June, 2007 | |||||
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RedStar says |
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| We've had plenty of discussions on the question of "greed". Here's a little from what I wrote previously: I have the impression more and more that all pro-capitalist arguments reduce to this assertion in one form or another. ... "Human nature" in the sense that they use the word must mean something common to all humans at all times...as, for example, the "stalk & pounce" impulse is common to all felines at all times. But the insatiable greed that they posit at the heart of "human nature" is clearly not common to all humans at all times...and even when present, has taken many different forms, by no means all of them purely materialistic. Once you have all that you can use, "greed", if still present, becomes pathological. In capitalist society, one in which uncertainty about the future is always present, you have to keep trying to accumulate more because of the risk of losing what you have. So it makes "rational sense" to be greedy under capitalism, to always want more. In an egalitarian society (communism) where you would always be secure against sudden destitution, greed for more than you can use would be, literally, crazy. Sort of like the Mormons who keep a year's supply of canned food in their basements...simply wacko. In other words, greed is the "natural phenomenon" under capitalism. Because under capitalism, accumulation of goods and property ensures better survival. Where as under communism, the need to accumulate goods is no longer present. For exmaple, I live in Canada, where running water is plentiful and in many cases, free. But I have yet to hear a single case where individuals try to take advantage of it and accumulate water in massive quantities, just because it's free. Catch my drift? |
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| - Author's History - 12 June, 2007 | |||||
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poss says |
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| Water is free here too, but coca cola doe actually collect huge quantities of it for free to bottle and sell... In fact, many global companies use as much water as they can here, depite out drought, simply because it is a resource they can get for free. Not that any of this, invalidates your point, it merely highlights how difficult it is for communist principles to exist along side capitalist reality. |
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| - Author's History - 13 June, 2007 | |||||
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ATB says |
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| I agree with you Redstar, but do we have enough resources available to satisfy everyone such that it eliminate their greed? In the perfect world, or atleast one where there is sufficient resources available so that all needs and most wants are met, greed would be a thing of the past. but currently, that doesnt seem to be true. help me provide for all the needs and materialistic wants of all of china, india, etc. and i'll personally help you convert the world to communism. i guess the other alternative is artificially reduce the drain on our current resources and control it so that those that remain can have all they want and need, living in a greedless, communistic utopia built upon the carcasses of the dead. believe it or not, i yearn for such a day. |
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| - Author's History - 13 June, 2007 | |||||
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Ati says |
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| Communism is not as safe as you would have it, redstar. Even if you managed to makes a communist society without apalling low standards of living or deep corruption (which has yet to happen for any reasonable length of time), there is still the question of shortages. Even in communism, it still makes sense to keep canned food on hand in case there is a food shortage. There are already too many people in the world - no matter how you arrange it, there will be shortages. Having stockpiles never hurts, regardless of the society that you live in. As far as all the evil of humanity being a product of capitalism, seriously man, have you ever driven in traffic? People screw each other for personal gain. It's why we're not extinct. That won't stop under communism. Under communism, everyone will not suddenly magically transform into good sumaritans who help other people at expense to themselves for free. They also won't stop trying to better themselves, at the expense of others if neccesary. Oh, and ATB: believe it or not, i yearn for such a day. Great... you first. |
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| - Author's History - 15 June, 2007 | |||||
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ATB says |
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| Ati, thanks for reiterating my point to Redstar about human greed as for building the utopia on top of the ashes of the old world and such... well, if me giving my life for those around me to live in such a utopia, i wouldnt mind at all. luckily, such thing will never happen anytime soon so i wont have to give myself anytime soon. |
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| - Author's History - 17 June, 2007 | |||||
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RedStar says |
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| Communism is not as safe as you would have it, redstar. Even if you managed to makes a communist society without apalling low standards of living or deep corruption (which has yet to happen for any reasonable length of time), there is still the question of shortages. You are blowing hot air unless you provide an economic model that totally proves that capitalism is the system that fails the least miserably. Until then, society will progress and eventually make capitalism obsolete. But so far, capitalism has failed more than 5 billion people...They are condemned to slave labor for the rest of their lives and then their children's. I doubt communism will do worse. Even in communism, it still makes sense to keep canned food on hand in case there is a food shortage. There are already too many people in the world - no matter how you arrange it, there will be shortages. The Earth can't possible support 6 billion people in the manner that it supports middle class North Americans...But it most definately could give everyone a decent standard of living---IF they could manage to escape the fate of being victimized by capitalism. As far as all the evil of humanity being a product of capitalism, seriously man, have you ever driven in traffic? People screw each other for personal gain. It's why we're not extinct. That won't stop under communism. Under communism, everyone will not suddenly magically transform into good sumaritans who help other people at expense to themselves for free. You certainly have a very strange understanding of communism. Whoever said people ever will give up petty feuding? Whoever said about "magically transforming people into good sumaritans?" Are you totally out of material to talk about that you'd have to make thing up? |
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| - Author's History - 24 June, 2007 | |||||
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deth says |
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| In malta, we had two different eras. One of socist communism lasted around 20 years(60 ,70's,till mid 80's) and other of capitalism (25 years) which lasts till the present day. At the end of communism era we were over 600 million maltese lira ( check conversion) over ... surpus. Today we are 500 million maltese liri under in debit. Make your comments! |
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| - Author's History - 28 June, 2007 | |||||
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